Air Lockers (ARB , TJM) V's Auto Lockers (Detroits , auto's)

[Big Matt]

After have a conversation with someone about Detroits V's Air lockers, id be interested in hearing everyone's opinions and experiences with one or the other, or both.

Most people will flat out say that air lockers are the best form of locker to have, their reliable, they lock everything up for maximum traction and allow you to drive your truck like normal. But then theres the down sides, hard steering with the front lock in, broken CV's are often blamed on lockers.

People with Auto's swear by them, and ive seen a few who do have the runs on the board. They are ALWAYS on, so you dont get stuck, then turn the locker on, they allow you to keep maximum traction while not loosing steering, and they dont rely on a compressor (which ive seen many a story of people having compressors shag out) to lock the diff. The down sides ? Ive read many reports about heavy steering with a from Auto locker. Are they really as effective as an air locker for MAXIMUM grip

This isnt about making my mind up on which to get, im just interested in what people have to say

Cheers

Matt

[croozza]

Originally Posted by Big Matt

After have a conversation with someone about Detroits V's Air lockers, id be interested in hearing everyone's opinions and experiences with one or the other, or both.

Most people will flat out say that air lockers are the best form of locker to have, their reliable, they lock everything up for maximum traction and allow you to drive your truck like normal. But then theres the down sides, hard steering with the front lock in, broken CV's are often blamed on lockers.

People with Auto's swear by them, and ive seen a few who do have the runs on the board. They are ALWAYS on, so you dont get stuck, then turn the locker on, they allow you to keep maximum traction while not loosing steering, and they dont rely on a compressor (which ive seen many a story of people having compressors shag out) to lock the diff. The down sides ? Ive read many reports about heavy steering with a from Auto locker. Are they really as effective as an air locker for MAXIMUM grip

This isnt about making my mind up on which to get, im just interested in what people have to say

Cheers

Matt

Hey Matt
I can give you the story that I have experienced from both sides of the fence.
I have Air lockers (F&R) in my current vehicle and swear by them, Turn them on when needed and turn them off when it is not needed, the vehicle drives heaps better on road now that the LSD is gone, it actually turns better into corners. Any locker you put in the front that is activated, will give you heavy steering and tend to drive you straight ahead, instead of turning, the beauty of the Air Locker is you can turn it off, Auto lockers you can't.
In regards to getting stuck then turning the Air Locker on, you should be thinking ahead and picking your line and knowing what will be required out of the vehicle and turn the Air Locker on before you need it. Auto lockers are on all the time, infact they really should be called Un-Lockers, when I had my last vehicle it had a auto locker in the rear, the vehicle would understeer wildly in the wet, even at low speeds, as you need to get off the power for the locker to unlock. As for the compressor, you will find they are very reliable as long as you get a good one, many people out there try to retro fit a cheap compressor for Air Lockers, that is where you would come undone. If you do the job properly first time and not try to cut corners and do things on the cheap, you will have trouble free operation.

[Big Matt]

Thanks for the reply croozza.

A mate of mine used to have a chev powered MQ patrol with air lockers, while his lockers worked well he killed 2 ARB compressors in a month, then one of their bigger ones. Then he got a Big Red from someone else and it has worked fine for years.

As for auto's, ive only been on one with an auto locker in the front, and to drive that one you wouldn't have known it was there. Ive been told that many of them arnt set up properly when installed, but i don't know anything about installing an auto locker so i cant really comment

[havok011101]

I've just ordered 2 Lokkas for my hilux, as they are a tonne cheaper!

Very curious to see how the understeer goes with the front locked in, but it doesn't turn great anyway!

Should have them installed in around a month.

[richardlnsw]

Hey Matt, i have been doing some research on this , while i am still a bit unclear i have sorted out most (for me that is). I was talking to a well known 4wd mechanic this morning, he fits ARB air locks or the auto locks (can't remember the brand). I was a bit concerned that with the auto he told me that they are on all the time and only turn off when cornering and stay on when going straight ahead. I think i like the sound of the air locker so i can turn it on or off when it suits me. I am fairly sure that all comp trucks use air locks? As far as ARB or TJM he has only ever done ARB. I spoke with my local TJM and they have told me that the new locks are in stock. He has fitted both ARB and TJM and believes that there is less that can go wrong with the TJM, this is confirmed by a lot of people. The compressor that TJM supply with the locks is too small, he admits this but they have told me that TJM will be putting out a new larger compressor in about 4 to 5 weeks. We will see! I am hearing a lot of complaints about ARB changing design and not making new parts the same size as old ones, not great for trying to repair anything. I am only getting a rear lock at this stage and i am leaning to the TJM, it sounds like it is stronger. I have had a bad time with ARB before stuffing up my suspension in a Suzuki Vitara. Told me it was alright to lift a car with bigger springs but left the original shocks in, car wandered all over the road.
Hope i may have helped, even if it is only a bit.

[Towie]

The advantages & disadvantages have been listed above however i am one of those that that likes get as far as i can before hitting the blue buttons..

So once 4wd will not get me any further i turn on the rear then the front when needed but with auto lockers you have no choice as to when & when not to use them..

for example if on a steep side slope when you do not want the lockers on its easy to turn the air lockers off...
I have had compressor go on me twice rendering lockers useless & having an open rear diff no lsd.
Obviously going up a steep hill & having to turn 90 degrees or more the steering becomes a big issue so you can turn off the air lockers but not the auto..

All said & done i think an Auto in the bum & air up the front would be an ideal arrangement.... i have a yota but if i had a troll again i would leave the LSD there & air the front..

[croozza]

Originally Posted by richardlnsw

. I spoke with my local TJM and they have told me that the new locks are in stock. He has fitted both ARB and TJM and believes that there is less that can go wrong with the TJM, .

I think you could read that a few ways,
1. Tjm will never say another brand was better than their one
2. They changed the design so less goes wrong with their own brand

It all comes down to the installer, if the installer does the job right you wont have any problems.

[Mongrel Lux]

The cheaper auto Lokkas are basicly the same as the old series 2 Detroit Lockers made back in the 1950s. Just tapered dog teeth that are forced to bounce & grind over each other. The series 3 & 4 Detoit lockers had square dog teeth ( not tapered ) for more possitive locking & seperate cam ramps & a hold out ring on both sides.

As a wheel becomes ground driven, the dog teeth pull away from each other, then the cam ramps slide up on each other & then the hold out ring pops out & the teeth spin freely on the hold out ring. over the last 30 years they have refind this to make it even smoother & faster. From fully locked to fully unlocked is 1/16 of a second & back to fully locked again is almost twice as fast. Much faster than you can reach for your ARB switch to turn your Air lockers off or on.

I like being able to steer, I find being able to turn corners kinda handy. 100% traction 100% of the time & ya can turn corners. You can not make a Detroit missbehave & believe me, I've tried!

& NO, the car dose not side side ways on off camber ( side sloping ) Tks either. I've driven my Hi Lux with open diffs & with twin series 5 Detroit Lockers & I can tell you that there is ABSOLUTLY NO DIFFERANCE WHAT SO EVER in the steering even in under ground car parks at less than 1/2 walking speed with the front hubs locked. In 2wd with the hubs locked, the auto locker is in constant opperation so it's a good test. I can jack 1 rear wheel off the ground & spin it EFORTLESSLY WITH 1 FINGER just as easly as I can an open diff. Another good test.

havok011101:-
A mate of mine has twin LOKKAs in his Hi Lux & runs heavy LSD oil in them & some of that Moly ( or what ever it is ) stuff wich is a very slippery gear oil additve & he says it makes the Lokka alot smoother than normal gear oil. He finds that under full power going up a hill & round a bend that he gets under steer big time. So he just backs off a little bit on the apex of the corner & it steers just fine.

Don't get me wrong. The ARB Air locker is very good locker. ARB is a MAJOR sponser of all winch comps, so it makes sense to use their product. That said, if they were unreliable, no one would use them anyway.

I've done nearly 300,000 kms on my series 5 Detroit lockers & I'ld never have anything else even if it was free. But the cheeper lockers are HALF THE PRICE & come with DIY instalation instructions if you're handy with a spaner. So it's good to know that there is some thing for everyone & every budget.

[Mongrel Lux]

Originally Posted by havok011101

I've just ordered 2 Lokkas for my hilux, as they are a tonne cheaper!Very curious to see how the understeer goes with the front locked in, but it doesn't turn great anyway!Should have them installed in around a month.

Oh & one more thing he dose. Every time he is traveling from 1 Tk to another on 2wd dirt roads, he FREES his FEE WHEELING HUBS. So the front Lokka is not opperating & has NO affect on steering.

A front auto locker also gives you more control going DOWN HILL. Twin Detroits give you a HELL OF ALOT MORE control down hill. Coming down Gentle Annie last weekend I had even more control than the bloke with chains & twin air lockers but maybe they weren't on.

[cruising62]

hay grate input guys,i'm toying with what lockers to put in my cruiser but the jury's sill out, maybe autos in the back and air in the front. hmmmm