Hand Winches

[ferozious]

Okay, firstly just want to mention i will not be getting an electric winch instead as i cant afford one and my battery and alternator are too weak.

Have been looking around at hand winches at all the shops. There seem to be two types.

You have the small ones which are around $75 - $100, which all sya they have something like a breaking capacity of 4,500kg, and then you have the much bigger ones which are around 12kg and in the price range of $280-$350, and most of them say they "rated to 1,500kg",
Does anyone know whether one of the small ones would be suffice? I have a Daihatsu Feroza which only weighs something like 1.2tonnes, and one of those big 12kg ones would take up a large portion of my storage space.

A second question, if i get a hand winch, can you still use a snatch block to make things easier, or will they only work if you are using an electrical winch which pulls continuously.
AND, can you use a snatch strap with a hand winch, or will the slight stretch make it take AGES to get enough tension?

Cheers.

Cheers.

[Elbie84]

You can still use a snatch block with a hand winch and half's the load.
I use the ARB magnium handwinch and have nothing bad to say about it.

[Walkabout]

Sounds like the smaller ones you are speaking of are to winch boats onto trailers.

Prob around $350-$400 will get you a winch suitable for your 4wd, ok a Freoza is not super heavy but a feroza stuck in mud up to the belly may need over 2 tonn of pulling pressure to move it.. That and you need a margin for safety also.

A 3.5 or 4 tonn hand winch should do the job nicely.

You would not use a snatch with a winch period, a suitable tow strap can be used in combination with a winch safely and would cost between $40 and $60 bucks.

[Potts]

Gday Ferozius,

First, you can always use a snatchblock, when used correctly it will half the load on the winch, but this will also half the speed of the pull and with a hand winch this is very slow.

Second, you will be advised from everyone NOT to use a snatch strap with a winch recovery weather with a hand winch or electric one. A snatch strap works via kenetic energy, the strap is pulled and stretched, it is the kenetic energy that tugs on the second vehicle like a rubber band that gets the recovery. If it is used with winching it will be stretched continuously over the recovery and at best will reduce the life of the strap, at worst it will break with alot of energy and will be a danger to all near the recovery.

Electric winches can be at a smaller cost than you think. I have a Tigerz 11 winch which is made in china with an australian company behind the design. It is available from $699 with wire rope or as I have with synthetic rope from $850.

Hope this helps.

[ferozious]

Originally Posted by Walkabout

The smaller ones you are speaking of are to winch boats onto trailers.

The small ones were for 4x4ing as well, different to the boat trailer ones. Theyre about 60cm long, and seem to have a metal wire going off from each end. On the box they have a photoshopped picture of a Landcruiser being towed up a gentle incline - i doubt the validity of that though.

[ferozious]

Originally Posted by Potts

Gday Ferozius,

Second, you will be advised from everyone NOT to use a snatch strap with a winch recovery weather with a hand winch or electric one. A snatch strap works via kenetic energy, the strap is pulled and stretched, it is the kenetic energy that tugs on the second vehicle like a rubber band that gets .......
Electric winches can be at a smaller cost than you think. I have a Tigerz 11 winch which is made in china with an australian company behind the design. It is available from $699 with wire rope or as I have with synthetic rope from $850.

So are the "20m winch extender straps" of different construction to a snatch strap?

Also, $699 is above my price range , unfortunately I'm a uni student and Ive just spent a large portion of my money getting my first 4x4.

[Potts]

Fez,

Yeah, the winch extension straps do not have elasticity in them, they have minimal stretch in the fibres when you put force on them (as all things do) but it is not elastic as a snatch strap is.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by ferozious

The small ones were for 4x4ing as well, different to the boat trailer ones. Theyre about 60cm long, and seem to have a metal wire going off from each end. On the box they have a photoshopped picture of a Landcruiser being towed up a gentle incline - i doubt the validity of that though.

Fair call, seems you have found the chen shin of vehicle winches maybe? a winch that says its rated to 4 tonn for $75-$150 sounds dangerous to say the least, save up your pennies and buy a good one from your local 4x4 supplier.
Skimping on recovery gear IMO is just asking for trouble.

[ferozious]

Originally Posted by Walkabout

Skimping on recovery gear IMO is just asking for trouble.

True i guess.

[millsy]

Originally Posted by Potts

Gday Ferozius,
A snatch strap works via kenetic energy, the strap is pulled and stretched, it is the kenetic energy that tugs on the second vehicle like a rubber band that gets the recovery.

Hi Potts, and welcome to the forum also. Just read your intro in the New Members section.
Sounds like you have built up a magnificient vehicle. Go the old fourbies. I have one too, but not quite as old as yours - an 82 Patrol.

As a physics teacher I would just like to clarify the way a snatch strap works, in terms of the terminology. I have read it often, on forums and in 4x4 magazines, that a snatch strap 'stores kinetic energy'. You have said it a bit differently - "works via kinetic energy".

I would say that a snatch strap stores elastic potential energy. This elastic potential energy has come from the conversion of some of the kinetic energy of the rescue vehicle. Then this stored elastic energy is converted again into the kinetic energy of the bogged vehicle as it is pulled out of the mud.

The word potential in 'potential energy' actually means stored energy. Something has potential energy if it has stored up energy ready to be used. Other types of potential energy being chemical potential energy, gravitational potential energy, electrostatic potential energy, magnetic potential energy.

I could be accused of being a bit pedantic I suppose, since in the normal sense of using a snatch strap, I guess you could say that the kinetic energy of the rescue vehicle has been stored up in the snatch strap. The only problem is that kinetic energy is the energy of a moving mass ( the energy of the moving mass of the rescue vehicle). When the snatch strap has stored this energy, the energy is no longer kinetic energy. It is elastic potential energy.

The reason that it works so well is that the pull on the bogged vehicle is the combined pull from the stretched snatch strap plus the grip and pulling effect of the rescue vehicle. This would be much more than the rescue vehicle just pulling with a normal, non-stretch tow rope, without attempting a snatch type manouvre.

And if a snatch was attempted with a normal towrope, something is bound to break - either the recovery hook on one of the vehicles or probably the rope. Like when you snatch a plastic bag off the fruit and veggie roll at the supermarket!

Hope I have not taken this thread too far off the initial intent. Just a bit more for the grey cells to chew over. Cheers.